Pajamas Media

60 Comments

Jason B.:

I’m glad to read your comments on the age difference issue. I’ve always had problems connecting with women (I usually end up in the “friend” zone) and, at 38, I’ve been getting seriously worried about finding someone to spend my life with. Especially someone who would be able to bear children (I want some, and women in my age group are generally past their optimal child-bearing years).

There are problems trying to connect with significantly younger women though. Even a 10 year age gap will mean a significant difference in cultural background. I remember Pong, while they probably won’t. If I have difficulty connecting with women my own age, how much more am I going to have with women whose worldview has been shaped by the Internet and for whom the Cold War is ancient history?

Ah well, mustn’t grumble. You give me hope that it really never is too late.

Sep 4, 2007 - 6:04 am Sam L.:

My late wife was 12.5 years younger than I, and my fiancee is 11.5. A friend called me a serial cradle-robber. However, the down-side(?) is that my daughter is planning to marry a man 12.5 years older than she. He’s a heckuva nice guy, so I’m not complaining.

Sep 4, 2007 - 7:03 am John F.:

The diversity argument is a useful reality check. We don’t think twice about cross-cultural marriages, and it only takes a few years difference for people to have grown up on different music and movies.

The jealousy factor may have deep roots: a man’s ability to attract young fertile women is associated with alpha male behavior, possibly from the time of the caveman. Even on these terms, the trading in (a la Donald Trump) of wives like cars for the latest model is vile and reprehensible. Generally, I think some of this comes from our nuclear family-centric society in which affairs kill marriages more easily than elsewhere, while Trump-ish behavior lives at the sociopathic fringe.

Sep 4, 2007 - 7:17 am Hucbald:

I’m a 49 year old musician - turn the corner on the “big five_O” in December - and I haven’t dated a girl within ten years of my age for nearly a decade now. Why? Because most women my age are married with kids, and single moms are mostly smart enough to know that a musician isn’t a good bet for them.

Sep 4, 2007 - 7:39 am Helen Smith:

Jason B,

It is never too late to find someone you care about and start a family. Certainly 38 is not old at all, I know men who are well over 40 who have two or more children under 3. I do think that age is just one factor in a relationship and personality and compatibility are more important. I understand that wanting children is a big factor for men wanting to date younger women but don’t rule out women your own age–I think that finding someone you like is more important in the long run and many women in their late thirties or even early 40’s can still have kids and some younger women can’t. My point is that when it comes to looking for a partner, keeping one’s heart open to women of all different ages–younger or older– opens up the possibility of finding the love you are looking for.

Sep 4, 2007 - 7:44 am Anne:

I think there’d be fewer raised eyebrows if the older man was poor and the younger woman was unattractive.

If he’s rich and she’s gorgeous, people assume that there are compensating factors at work here in the relationship.

Sep 4, 2007 - 7:51 am Kev:

[M]ost women my age are married with kids, and single moms are mostly smart enough to know that a musician isn’t a good bet for them.

Hucbald, you’re killing me here; I hope that comment was at least tongue-halfway-in-cheek. I’m a musician as well (and a jazz musician at that!), and comments like that only serve to reinforce stereotypes that are as bad as the one that says “older men who date younger women are serial cradle robbers.”

I agree with Jason B. above; the future Mrs. Kev will almost undoubtedly be younger, because I too want kids, and women in my general age range have that biological clock ticking very loudly.

Sep 4, 2007 - 7:55 am Mark A.:

My guideline has always been the “half my age plus seven” rule. At 50, it has seen me through three marriages, numerous other short-lived relationships, and once again has put me in the awkward position of knowing that my 34 year old girlfriend is beginning to get a bit long in the tooth. I’m not opposed to dating women my own age; it just appears they have adopted the same rule and used it against me!

Sep 4, 2007 - 7:59 am ShannonLove:

I believe that our contemporary leeriness of romantic relationships with a large age difference springs from the suspicion that unhealthy psychological factors drive the attraction for partners outside an individuals immediate age range.

We often intuitively believe that a man who is attracted to much younger women either places to much value on shallow sexual gratification or that he lacks the emotional maturity or confidence to comfortably partner with a women with an equal degree of emotional maturity. Likewise, we often intuitively believe that a women who seeks out older partners lacks confidence in herself and seeks out a paternalistic figure to compensate.

Unfortunately, intuition seems to arise out of a statistical understanding of human affairs and we cannot apply it to individual cases with any degree of accuracy. For example, inter-cultural marriages are statistically less stable than intra-cultural marriages but enough such marriages succeed to extent that arguably American culture as a whole arises from such unions.

In my experience, individuals make the best relationship choices when they depend on a wide poll of the opinions of friends and family. If the people who know and love a person don’t think a particular match will work (for whatever reason) then the chances are good that it will not last longterm.

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:00 am Ron W:

I am 54, my wife is 28. We have been married for 9 years. We have the same hobbies, the same interests, we like the same music, we like the same movies, and we have the same political views for the most part. Age difference is one small factor that we can live with. Many people who know us describe us as having the idea marriage.

I didn’t look for someone that young. It is just that the best woman for me was 18 when I found her. Why pass that up?

I have run into some hostility. Only from women over 40. Guess they don’t like the competition.

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:06 am Mark Anderson:

I worry about the mixed marriage mentioned above. As Colts are typically more expensive than Rugers, I would think you should let your wife have the ‘bling’ and you carry the more utilitarian handgun. Remember, we should be more than willing to sacrifice for someone who brings so much to our lives. Let her drive the Colt for a while and see whether you are appreciated more for it.

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:08 am Jim:

I’m 12 years older than my wife. I think some people may have thought it was too great a difference when we were first dating (when I was 34 and she was 22) but now that I am 64 and she is 54 it does not seem like much of a difference at all.

My youngest has always looked older and more mature than his actual age. He was wearing a beard during his freshman year of high school. A friend of his three year older sister asked him to her senior prom. This girl did not attend the same high school as my kids and nobody in her class knew who he was. Her classmates at the prom assumed she was dating a college student.

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:12 am Shinobi:

I can’t say I’m surprised that Kev and Jason aren’t settled down yet. I know it is shocking to find out that most women don’t want to marry a guy who wanted her almost soley due to ability to make babies for him. (And the fact that she’s probably the only woman to give him the time of day.)

Maybe you guys should try focusing on finding a woman who makes you happy, and if you can’t have your own kids you could always adopt one or two of the hundreds of the children around the world who need loving families. (Or you could just have money and a life.)

I think of it this way, if a woman your age is too old to have a baby, then a man the same age is probably too old to be a Dad. There are two factors involved in this. First off some studies have shown that older fathers can also contribute to birth defects in children. So while women definetly can’t have kids past a certain point, men also probably shouldn’t.

Beyond biological considerations there is the generation gap to consider. At 40 are you really ready to stay up all night with a newborn? Are you gonna be able to really communicate with your kid when you are teaching them to drive at 56? Do you really want to be 60 and paying your kid’s college tuition?

Think of how completely alien a 15 year old is today. (They speak a totally different language, and I’m only 25) And then imagine trying to communicate with the next generation in 15 years. Don’t you think you might be a leeeeetle too old for this?

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:19 am Jerry G:

I’m 44 and have dated women from 46 to early twenties. A couple of points here

A wide age range can indicate a trade of assets. For a man usually wealth stability for youth and sexuality. But that doesn’t mean that a good relationship cannot be formed

Dog bites man. In the US where female empowerment is highest in the world there is a reversal of tradition. There are a LOT of attractive, financially secure 40+ woman who are cougars. If I’m at a club and I see a woman in this category my chances are slim. There are plenty of 25 year olds that would be more fun for them than me. Basically most assets that they valued at 25 (stability, reliability, predictability) they don’t care about at 40 - but 25 year olds still do.

This one I’m not sure about but would love feedback. I find myself with 25 year olds much more often. My theory is that younger woman flirt more than older women. I think this is because older woman are more cynical of relationships and men - through bad experiences. For a shy guy breaking down an older womans walls is tough while rappor with younger women can be more fun. Of course it could just be that I am insecure and immature!

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:26 am Peg C.:

I agree with Shannon. Live and let live, and go for it, but you likely will face some strong objection and overt hostility (doesn’t matter if it’s based in jealousy or something else) from family and friends. Be ready to face it and ignore and go your own way. Much harder said than done. Furthermore, these relationships often founder due to jealousy on the part of the older man.

A story: My stepdaughter, at 19, got involved with a 41-year-old divorced co-worker. They lasted several years and we became extremely fond of him. We shared much more in common with him, in fact, than she did. He was very good to her, but turned out to be extremely jealous of her contacts with young, male friends. I believe his jealousy actually drove her to cheat on him and end the relationship for the new, younger boyfriend. Issues with the ex-wife and kids (who adored her, actually) also figured prominently in her ultimately deciding not to marry the older man. They could not surmount the generational and life differences, and he faced a lot of opposition from friends and family to his relationship with a much younger woman. Our family actually was very supportive and fairly devastated when they broke up. We have a hard time getting close to or trusting her new boyfriends now. But it’s her life to live. (She’s now living with someone her exact age, 29, and is extremely happy with absolutely no plans for marriage or kids.)

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:29 am ken:

I just turned 46 and my wife is 12 years younger. We have two boys, ages 1 and 3. While part of me wishes I had children when I was younger (and able to handle several straight nights without much sleep easier), I think for me I wasn’t “ready” to have them until I was 40. And while I’ll be paying for their college at age 60, the good news is that we are financially secure now and able to save for it now. I couldn’t do that 10 years ago very well.

And yes there are cultural differences, but we laugh about them instead of there being any issue.

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:30 am Jack-999:

I’m 62 and my (foreign-born) wife is 37; we have two teen-aged children. When we met, I was 45 and she was 20. To us, the age difference has never seemed like a big deal, and if other people don’t like it, they can go [expletive deleted] themselves. And frankly, if I woke up tomorrow morning and — heaven forbid — found myself divorced or widowed, I would probably head overseas again and look for another twenty year old.

There is one rather sobering downside, though: We just found out recently that she is expecting again! It was a totally unplanned pregnancy ( 1000:1 odds, according to the gynecologist), and I still haven’t gotten my brain wrapped around the fact that I’m going to be 80 when this baby gets out of high school.

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:35 am Tammy:

I don’t begrudge older men their younger ladies; but what I want to know is this: Is it not okay for an older woman to date and marry a much younger man? It does happen, you know. Still-hot, unconnected, hoochie mamas DO exist. Just thought I’d play devil’s advocate. LOL

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:38 am eitheror:

This question of much older men and young women is not new.

Anyone who has read The Count of Monte Cristo should remember the exchange between Edmond Dantes and his 18 year old ward Haydee.

She argues the positive and he the negative.

He loses the arguement gracefully.

All you older gentlemen have Dumas the younger on your side.

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:43 am Matt S.:

Well Jack, if 40 is the new 30 then maybe 60 is the new 45-50. Time to hit the gym and keep eating right as you will need the energy.

Congratulations Jack!

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:56 am TakeFive:

“A 90-year-old farmer in India became a father for the 21st time.”

I’m always skeptical about these kinds of late parenthood stories. I belive it’s a case of the much younger wife fooling around and getting pregnant, then telling her desicated old husband “It’s a miracle!”.

The old guy, out of pride or delusion, goes along with it.

Sep 4, 2007 - 9:04 am joanna:

Before I got married, I dated guys my age, younger guys, and guys who were up to 11 years older. I’ve had 3 marriage proposals that I turned down. Then I met my guy. He’s 30 years older, which makes him older than my parents. He’s a doctor, I’m an engineer. He comes from a purely conservative upbringing, my parents couldn’t be more liberal. You’d think you couldn’t find two people more different from each other.

I couldn’t be happier.

He treats me like a princess, I treat him like a king. I look out for his needs, he does the same for me. I think we operate on the 60/60 principle. We both try to give at least 60% instead of going for 50-50. We’ve never had a big fight (we’ve been together almost 10 years, married for 4). Any arguments we’ve had couldn’t have been a big deal because I can’t remember what they’re about.

His siblings think I’m great for him, his friends joke about envying him, and I get along wonderfully with his kids who are my age.

In my mid-30s, I have “grandkids” who love me. The 10-year-old and I joke about telling curious people, who ask if she’s my daughter, that’s she’s my granddaughter and that I’m really 65, I just look young for my age.

The only downside that I see is that whatever it is I want to do, he’s already done it in a different lifetime. Most places I want to go to he’s already been to. It just became a challenge to me, though, to find things that he’s never done before. And so far, I haven’t failed to surprise him yet.

Oh, one other thing. When you truly love someone, age doesn’t even come into the equation. We often forget that there’s even an age difference (he’s as silly and immature as they come, sometimes). If anything, it’s the people who see us together who seem to have a judgmental eye. But who cares. They’re probably just jealous as well.

Sep 4, 2007 - 9:05 am Artd0dger:

I recall that there was a recent study postulating that May-December marriages provide much of the evolutionary pressure selecting for human longevity, which is rather high as a result. Makes sense.

Sep 4, 2007 - 9:17 am moptop:

PC Tammy,

While I am sure such relationships exist, kind of funny that they seem rarer than the other way around based on the responses.

Consider that a good deal of our thinking and all of our genetic makeup is formed by choices that humans have made over countless generations. Over that time, young men who have chosen older women as mates have had fewer children. Older men who can attract younger women have had more children.

There is small evolutionary payoff for a woman past child bearing years to be sexually attractive. At best she would have an advantage in supporting the children she has already had. There is a huge benefit for men.

But let’s just pretend that the above is not true because it is not politically correct.

Sep 4, 2007 - 9:37 am debbie:

When I was 35 I had a relationship with a 25 year old man that lastest a couple years. We were on our 3rd date before we realized I was 10 years older.

Also, when I was 20, I had an innocent summer fling with a 15 year old boy. On the face of it , it might seem inappropriate but we were both naive and sheltered, and there was nothing close to sex involved. It was sweet tho…one of those things you look back at 30 years later and smile.

Sep 4, 2007 - 9:37 am Joan of Argghh!:

Old, young, whatevah. Just make sure they “get” your jokes.

However, I think there is a bit of disdain directed toward the old hound-dogs who, after 25 years of marriage just feel entitled to dump the wife who has carried her share of the responsibilities and stress.

He dumps her for some younger, carefree thing that he can now afford to pamper and send to the gym and keep groomed and sleek like a pet.

Justice in those situations usually evens out when he’s old and alone and no sweet young thing wants to help him wipe his butt.

Mutually Assured Desertion is what I call it.

Sep 4, 2007 - 9:40 am Eilish:

I think that, far more than age, stage of life is the most important factor in these situations. When I met my husband he was 20 and I was 23. At first I thought that having graduated from school already, being in the workforce and looking for a marriage partner put us in different stages of life. He, however, had already taken care of his mother during his teens and then lost her to cancer. He was working in his own business and didn’t really have much time for girls who just wanted to date. We were at the same stage of our life when we met and have stayed in sync since.

I am a very different person at 30 than many of my college friends who are older but still single and dating. No matter the age, there can be a vast difference in what stage of life people are at. If you meet someone who has the same expectations of your relationship that you do, lots of variations in age can work!

Sep 4, 2007 - 9:41 am jb:

I wonder how many of the older men that have married a much younger woman also have a daughter. I am a single male and closing in on 50 years. It would be dandy to enlarge the pool of possibilities each year to include women (girls) turning 18, but I can’t.

I know the nature of men. I like being one. I am the father of a daughter in her early twenties. That last part has caused me to have some views that many would consider prudish. I wish I could properly describe in words the nature of the feelings that a father (at least this father) has for his daughter, but I can’t other than to say that I have never felt anything stronger.

To those men who have married much younger women; don’t think too badly of those cracking jokes about “cradle robbing”. Women are always someone’s daughter. I am pretty sure that a decent percentage of mothers and fathers would have a problem with a man of their age dating their daughter. I am glad that I cracked a “cradle robbing” joke to the man that made a comment to me about my daughter. Yep - he didn’t know - DUH. Glad I chose the joke rather than choosing what I really wanted to do.

One more point to avoid unneeded responses: I would not try to live my daughter’s life for her, or to impose my views either. Even if I wanted to I know it would just backfire. And if she decides to marry an older man, I will have to learn to accept it. I am pretty sure I could do that, but it would not be easy.

Sep 4, 2007 - 10:12 am Ken:

What about the flip side — older women marrying younger men? I’m 44 and my wife is 56. We’ve been married for two years, and dated for several years before that. Not to boast, but we are both very attractive, have professional careers, many good friends and thoroughly enjoy life.

Prior to meeting my wife, I dated people around my age, and one who was ten years younger. The younger one was typical arm candy — very attractive, and a decent conversationalist. Things just didn’t work out between us. After her, I met the woman whom I would eventually marry, and I have never been happier or in a better relationship than the one I am in now.

Sep 4, 2007 - 10:26 am Frantic Freddie:

I guess we have a mixed marriage,she shoots revolvers,I shoot autos.

I have that t-shirt & it never fails to elicit positive comments…never had any negative comments,wonder why?

Sep 4, 2007 - 10:39 am Scott Marriott:

Thanks for the support. I married one of my university students while I was teaching in Latvia for the Peace Corps in 1995. We are 22 years apart. Now, after 12 years of happiness together, even my most traditional relatives have accepted us. We just knew in some intuitive way that it would work for us, and it has. You’ve said it well and we thank you for it.

Sep 4, 2007 - 10:57 am Lord Whorfin:

Regarding the “mixed marriage”-

Are they both revolvers or automatics?

Sep 4, 2007 - 11:00 am MathMom:

My aunt married a man 21 years her senior many years ago. This was when people looked really old at 60. He died at 85+, it was then that my mom told me of their great age difference. I never knew - they seemed the same age to me. Worked for them.

I am married to a man 6 years my senior - he always called me his trophy wife, which we both find funny. I like the age difference, because I always found it difficult to find mature men of my age. He says that though he likes the age difference, he wouldn’t go another year older, because even with our relatively minor difference, he says I don’t really understand Buddy Holly, or the zeitgeist of his formative years. He says, like with a good joke, if you have to explain it, something is lost. Someone asked me, when looking at my wedding pictures, if he was my father. She was shocked when I told her he was my husband. We are married 21 years and counting.

An acquaintence of mine married a man one year older than her oldest son. They lasted about 9 years. The age difference was becoming more apparent every day - she has not held up well, and he has. In their pictures, she looked like the mother of the bride, but you couldn’t find the bride. It was her third marriage, so she has repeatedly failed to get something right. I don’t know if the age was the biggest thing in her case, or just the fact that she’s hard to live with.

Sep 4, 2007 - 11:14 am submandave:

Shinobi: “I know it is shocking to find out that most women don’t want to marry a guy who wanted her almost soley due to ability to make babies for him.”

There are many factors that may affect one’s desire to settle down with someone vice just date them. Common ones include religion and desire for children. I reread both Jason and Kev’s comments and definitely don’t get the feeling that either expressed that their preference for fertility was as singular or extreme as you seemed to feel. I wonder if, perhaps, your perception might not be informed by personal emotions.

Sep 4, 2007 - 11:19 am Darrell:

I’m 56 and still have 4 children at home (my youngest is 9-years old). This isn’t because I married a much younger woman (she’s about 5 years younger). It’s because my sweetheart and I have had nine well-spaced children who we all adore. Being older with younger children is no problem. In fact, my maturity has helped me improve parenting skills with my younger children and it has kept me young.

My 17-year old daughter and I recently discussed what I would do, if her Mom were killed or died of some fatal illness. I asked her what she might think of having a stepmother in her late 20’s or 30’s. She said that it would probably be a little weird, but that she recognized that the choice of a new spouse would be mine to make. She said that the most important thing would be to find someone that could be a good Mom to any remaining children and a good wife to me. Personally, I’m not sure how such a scenario would play out, but I would hope that I wouldn’t limit my choices just because others thought it wasn’t politically correct. Life is too short to pass up happiness over such foolishness.

Sep 4, 2007 - 11:28 am Chris:

My very good friend and my brother both married women ten years younger. Both were in their mid thirties when they did so. Both gave me the same explanation: “women my age have too much baggage.” When I talked with my friend about it (divirced-wife left him for a male stripper) he explained that many of the women his age were divorced and so bitter that they eyed everything with suspicion. He got tired of having to meet impossible standards and being under a microscope. Youner women, he said, were more accepting of who he was and were not so obsessed with making him into what they wanted him to be. My brother said amost the same thing.

Sep 4, 2007 - 11:30 am MagicalPat:

I had this conversation recently with two female friends that are in their late forties. They were upset that men their age seemed only to be interested in younger women. I asked them how old the men they dated were when they were in their twenties and early thirties. They both admitted that almost exclusively they dated men in their late forties. They said those men were more mature, more successful and more respectful. Men in their twenties they said, were unreliable.

I told them that I had a similar experience as well. In my twenties and early thirties, many women passed me by in order to date older men. Now in my mid forties, those younger women pursue me.

I asked them if I should only ask out the same women that rejected me twenty years ago. To my surprise, they said no.

Sep 4, 2007 - 11:36 am Joel Rosenberg:

With respect to you and your commentator, I disagree; I think a mixed marriage is where one spouse carries a revolver and the other a semiauto. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that; I’m in one of those, and I tolerate my beloved wife’s perverted gunstyle with some equanimity.)

Sep 4, 2007 - 11:44 am Jay Currie:

At 51 I have a 6 and a 3 year old and a delightful partner who genuinely looks 35 though she is a decade older. I’ve had greying hair since my twenties and male pattern baldness to boot. I look every year of my half century.

In effect, Susan and I look like the May-December couple though we’re not. Which has lead to some amusing situations in which I am congratulated on my lovely grand daughters (which will teach me not to let my boys’ hair get too long.)

Our real age difference is only six years and entirely invisible to us. Probably because Susan knows little and cares less about pop culture/the latest movie/song/celebrity rehab and her indifference is eclipsed only by my own. We pay attention to our kids, good books, great food and a sense of a more permanent world. Age does not come into it - finding time, well that is another story.

Sep 4, 2007 - 11:54 am Anonymous Coward:

An old friend of mine married a 20ish woman when he was in his 30s. They get along great and now have 2 kids (10 or so years later).

His favorite line was always, “I’m only as old as the woman I feel”.

Yeah, he was obnoxious like that. =)

Sep 4, 2007 - 12:01 pm Mark Buehner:

I think a lot of this is part of the infantilization of late-teens/twenty-somethings we see all the time. How often do you see terms like ‘22 year old kid’ etc? Scale that down to an 18 year old and you might as well be committing statuatory rape to some people.

Its really odd- because (at least as far as men go) if you are 35 and dating a 20 year old, you are considered an unrepentant cad at best (a pervert at worst), but if you are 55 and dating a 20 year old, somehow it becomes ok again and people grin and shake their heads. Very weird.

Sep 4, 2007 - 12:05 pm Ron W:

In answer to jb’s question:
I have a daughter 2 years older and one a year younger than my wife. She became a grandmother at the ripe old age of 19! To that grandson she is “The Grandma” and has argued the point with my ex.

My 2 daughters have had 5 husbands between them, 4 not so good. I would have been much happier had they chosen good guys my age or any age.

My in-laws, who are younger than I am, think I am great. Never had a clash with them.

Sep 4, 2007 - 12:24 pm An older guy:

I’m 54, most recently I dated a woman 19.5 years younger. We were together for 4 year then apart for 3 and now are gingerly exploring getting back together. We are of different races as well. We split up because of her impatience (probably justified) with my scars and concerns from my previous marriage. When we were together, we were very good for each other. We enjoyed a very “healthy” relationship. She’s smart and wise, in many ways I’m the idealist and she is the pragmatist. I often marvel at the long strange path I’ve traveled to find her.

I have no idea if we’ll end up together this time around. Nor do I know what I’ll do if we don’t. However I have learned something from knowing her.

If you are lucky enough to find someone that you truly and completely love and they love you in the same way, nothing else really matters. Despite our differences we complete each other like no one else either of us have ever met. Thats why we are trying again. So if you find that person don’t let age or anything else stand in the way.

Sep 4, 2007 - 12:33 pm Californio:

Think of your children - we all have our secret plan on who our kids will marry. But time and wisdom should teach us to hope that our children find the right person for them - and that person may not look like our fantasy image of a daughter, or son, -in-law. This applies to race as well as age. [of course the “different” couples, age, race etc - have to live in the world with everyone else too. ]

Sep 4, 2007 - 1:38 pm Larry J:

I’m 7 years younger than my wife. We’ve been married for 24 years. While we have quite a few differences, we have more things in common. Life is good.

Sep 4, 2007 - 2:00 pm Jim Rockford:

Shinobi –

A man and woman with an age gap of 15 years or so will have the same basic cultural experiences. They will have grown up with the Cold War. They will listen to the same types of music (that the band names might change is irrelevant — the Sex Pistols and Arctic Monkeys are essentially the same band). They will watch the Simpsons and South Park. They’ll read the same books. Watch the same movies.

The shocking thing is how LITTLE youth/popular culture has changed since 1968. In 1968, “Adults” listened to Dino and Frank, or maybe Miles. Wore suits and ties. Now aging boomers like Steve Job listen to music that was recorded more than 40 years ago !!! The same music that say, a 25 year old might listen to. And on the flipside, both Jobs and the 25 year old would listen to say, Springsteen’s latest or the Killers.

I don’t think a CULTURAL age gap exists.

What does exist is prospects of finding a mate. Women in the 35 year old age range studies suggest will trade down a bit in years if it’s a second partner, but generally want men of higher status than their first partner. And biology is what it is … the ability to conceive for women rapidly declines past the early thirties, and the decline is non-linear, i.e. a steep curve.

It is true that a few lucky women with the help of IVF which is quite expensive can conceive, but say, Marcia Cross is both wealthy and probably a genetic windfall in terms of physical attributes.

If a man wants kids that means a younger woman than 35 in almost all cases.

The trade: emotional maturity, income, stability, comfort, for youth and fertility is pretty old and has worked as long as the gap is not too large.

And consider this: a seeker of marriage at 38 might still be “too young” and not successful enough for a women his age. She might prefer a man of 42 with a lot more power/success.

Men and women are not the same, and don’t generally want the same exact things in mates.

Sep 4, 2007 - 2:47 pm RodgerS:

I would recommend that men clearly understand that they should approach a new relationship with a much younger woman with some skepticism, unless they are looking for a trophy. If companionship is what you are after, keep the relationship on an extended friendship basis for awhile. Eating at downscale restaurants, not showering gifts, nor getting caught up in the perfume of the moment, and spending most of your time together talking will eventually help you figure out if your mutual agendas, needs, and goals are what you hope they are…or if you are simply caught up in a romance of your own imagination.

Sep 4, 2007 - 4:14 pm Steve:

Great site, keep it up!

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Sep 4, 2007 - 5:48 pm Elza:

Can anyone tell me if the recipe for happiness has anything to do with age?
What is the life that is worth being lived?
A person who truly loves us,respects us, accepts our weaknesses and limitations cannot be judged because of his/her age.
Does my Soul have an age?
It surely not!
Elza Contieri - Brazil

Sep 4, 2007 - 6:44 pm Older and Dang Smart:

For Shinobi: First, your response claims two male posters here are looking for a mate based only on fertility. Neither of them actually stated that, if you read their posts. Perhaps you should read http://www.physorg.com/news107580351.html, an article concerning the genetic basis for human longevity and older male/younger female pairings. And I am older than you but I will still try to comunicate, because, like, I am one of those “US Americans” (quoting Miss Teen America contestant) who use this science and stuff, and it’s like, well, so rad! Rock on baby Rock On. Wonder if your opinion of “gay marriages” is similar to your critique of hetereosexual marriages that have, gasp, an age difference.

Sep 4, 2007 - 8:37 pm Ricardo P.:

There are so many important issues with two people getting together, and age is NOT one of them. If you’re 20+ years difference, but the attraction and friendship is there, go for it.

People who have that jealousy and carp about those ‘young chippies’ are doing nothing but showing their own inadequacies. Frankly, I’d advise most men to look in the 10+ plus range difference for a mate. Then see where you go from there.

Sep 4, 2007 - 11:36 pm Tammy:

Before I married my husband, who is only 3.5 years older than me, I did date a man 20 years older than me. He, of course, was a serial womanizer. I’m NOT saying that’s what all older men are to younger women. I broke up with him because he was a jerk. I married someone who treats me like a queen and I couldn’t be happier.

Now, back to that older woman-younger man thing: Making babies would be the farthest thing from this couple’s minds, if you catch my drift. This would be, in as PG-13 an answer as I can give, for “companionship.” You can think up your own definition for that.

Sep 5, 2007 - 8:38 am Westside Widow:

Very interesting comments but I’ve noticed that the majority of posts are from men….Natually, they’re all for the May-December relationship.
While I’m not against it on principle, I will add that it’s often very difficult in practice. I should know, Twenty five years ago I married a man who was 22 years older. I wanted stability and he wanted fertility. After the novelty of being a trophy wife wore off, (and after two children) I realized that the only reason why we got along so well was that it was all about him.
I was always expected to adjust to his cultural norm, and not him to mine. He had the money, the power, the control and dictated how we lived, who we socialized with, what music we listened to, what activities we did, where we went on vacation, etc.
he was a world apart from me culturally, which may seem unimportant but becomes seriously grating after many years. Not that pop music or pop culture is all that imporatant to me, in fact the opposite but I’d prefer a relationship with someone who has heard of… say Led Zeplin or U2…not that they would be expected to listen to that music…just to have heard of them. Obviously, it’s not just music but movies, books, etc.
Finally, my point is that the relationship wasn’t so good for me, but was great for him…at least until he died of a heart attack at the age of 56.
I think that a 10-15 year age difference is fine but 20 years or more can be truly difficult. The ultimate irony is that I failed to remarry when I was a hot young widow in my early 30s and now that I’m in my late 40’s all the men my age are dating 20-30 year olds and I will probably end up with another man who is 20 years my senior!!!

Sep 5, 2007 - 8:50 am John Dye:

I don’t have a problem with older men and younger women. I DO most vocally have a problem with a Don Imus, a Tony Randall, or a Larry King having a baby when they are only looking at perhaps a decade of life. Sure, they feel great and they are ensuring that their little ten year old gets to have a personal crisis at an early age.

Thanks guys.

Sep 5, 2007 - 9:31 am anon33:

Someone observed that a much-younger wife may not have any interest in taking care of a man when he is old and helpless. But isn’t this also often true of wives the same age, including first wives?

It is a commonplace that when a man suffers a severe career setback, his wife is likely to leave him–or, if she stay, make his life a living hell. Why would she be any more merciful if he is sick?

Sadly, many humans react to vulnerability with contempt and abuse. I’m not sure if women are worse about this than men, but don’t see much reason to think they’re better.

Sep 6, 2007 - 11:37 am Eric Scheie:

Wonder if your opinion of “gay marriages” is similar to your critique of hetereosexual marriages that have, gasp, an age difference.

This made me feel like wading in to say that socially, there is a lot less concern for age differences among gays. It is pretty much assumed that a young man who is with an older man is “into” that, and vice versa. In that respect, it would be nice if heterosexuals could learn to be a bit more accepting, for I have seen more intolerance among heterosexuals over the “age difference” issue than among homosexuals. I don’t know why this is, but I think it has something to do with jealousy, and projection, as well as innate differences between gays and straights. (In the latter, conformity to certain norms is expected, while in the former, nonconformity is the rule.) This leads to the paradoxical situation of more “tolerance” for the gay couple (age difference or not) than for the “shocking” spectacle of a “dirty old man running around with a woman half his age!”

Bear in mind that these are necessarily generalizations based on personal observations. I do not speak as an expert, nor as representative of any group.

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Mar 25, 2008 - 3:59 pm Brown Hornet:

Wow. I’m amazed at the comments on this subject. I thought I was all alone in my attraction to younger women. Seems I’m not the only “dirty old man” out there.

I’m 36 y/o and generally date women aged 22+. Funny thing is, when I was 18-25 years old, women my age wouldn’t give me the time of day. But as soon as I turned 30, women that age started pursuing me. Go figure. It helps that I look young for my age. My former co-workers still think I’m 25. My mom looks much younger than her age as well, so thank God for genetics.

I’m a bit troubled, though, ’cause whenever I’m dating a younger woman, I feel like I’m doing something wrong. I’ve always prided myself on being a non-conformist (libertarian, agnostic, self-employed), but I think society’s disdain for younger woman/older man relationships has infiltrated my thinking. Is it my own sense of decency that disagrees with what I’m doing or society’s programming? My gut tells me the latter. I mean, I’m no pedophile. I’m in no way interested in anyone younger than 18 (even 18, though, is too young for me). So if I’m not breaking any laws, should I feel guilty? I mean, what could I do to harm a young woman that someone her age couldn’t do? Not that I’m looking to harm anyone.

And since when did 18-22 year olds become “kids”? Wasn’t it just 40-50 years ago 18 year olds were getting married out of high school and starting families? Were they adults then?

Apr 20, 2008 - 8:31 am Brenda:

I am a 33 year old who looks 27, dating a 51 year old who looks 45. We get the looks wherever we go, sometimes you can hear (usually guys) that’s his daughter. I don’t know why people are so interested in a strangers life? We go to the gym together,and put up with a lot of b.s. Sometimes I am so emotionally drained! I don’t know why people say things loud enough to hear them, it’s mean and cruel. Any advice?

May 13, 2008 - 7:00 am Mark:

I am 49 and the love of my life is 27. She and I worked together for several years and she, secretly had an intrest in me. I never knew until a mutual friend opened my eyes and told me. It took me a month to pick up the phone and call her. When I did, she was right there by my side! We shared good times and bad together. All the while, growing closer. Then, one day it changed. Her step-father began to tease her about her about her attraction to me, calling it some kind of “father complex”. She is very fragile and took these comments to heart. Soon, our relationship began to come unraveled. She began wondering what would life be for us in the future…she started seeing me as a much older man. For the record, I am fit, a runner, very good shape. I feel and act much younger. We hike and run and swim together. Our romantic times together were mutually gratifying. She has said on many occasions that our love was the very best she has ever experienced. She says, I put the smile back on her face. Yet, she ended our relationship, to my great dissapointment. I am heart broken and I believe that she is also. However, she has distanced herself from me and we are now attempting to be freinds…at whatever level, I want her in my life and hope that she someday has a change of heart! Until then, I will continue to try to understand and will be there for her, as she was for me!

Aug 21, 2008 - 1:38 pm

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